The next day, Atreus, walking his old friend Socrates through the portico, asks Socrates what he thinks of the painting in the upper foyer. Socrates exclaims that the picture is exquisite. Atreus then goes on to tell Socrates about the difficulty he was having in trying to decide which of the paintings should be hung in the foyer. After much difficulty, Atreus explained, he finally decided which of the pictures was more beautiful. Having heard this, Socrates has a conversation with Atreus.
SOCRATES: Atree, I envy you very much. If I were the curator of this gallery, I would decide for life which of the two paintings was the more beautiful, but I would have taken only one day.
Atrebus: Surely, Socrates, you do not believe enough for yourself. You are one of the most intelligent citizens of Athens. It didn’t matter which one was more beautiful.
SOCRATES: No Atreus, you give me too much credit. I would never be so foolish as to tell myself which was more beautiful, for I do not know what beauty is.
Atrebus: You must know what beauty is. The concept of natural beauty for us is simply stupid to not know how to claim. Also child knows what beauty is. Is that what you call me, Socrates?
SOCRATES: No, Atreus, I am only asking what beauty is exactly and sincerity. Could you please give me a moment of your precious time and impart to me your knowledge in this particular field?
Atrebus: That’s right, Socrates. Beauty is what we find physically pleasing, beautiful, what is good, pleasing to the eye, pleasing to the eye, and so on. Do you want to agree?
SOCRATES: Is it true, Atreus, that mere beauty pleases the eyes?
Atrebus: Of course, O Socrates. As simple as that. You see the concept of beauty is not a difficult concept to grasp; you already understand
SOCRATES: My Atreus, I am troubled by one. What will we do about the music that beautiful people talk about? Shall we say that they are wrong in thinking and that only what is physically attractive is beautiful?
Atrebus: No, Socrates, of course music cannot be beautiful either.
SOCRATES: But I thought that beauty was beautiful, pleasing to the eye, things good to look at, etc. Now you say your definition of beauty is inadequate? If it is so Atreus, try again to tell me how beautiful it is and how truly you can spend your time in this explanation.
DARK: We will simply adjust our definition of beauty to include things that also sound beautiful. Will it work?
SOCRATES: I am not sure, Atreus. We will have to investigate this new definition further if our understanding of beauty is adequate. I ask you, Atreus, is this our friend Cronus the handsome old man? (Here I imagine fictional characters Chrono to be a withered, unattractive old man).
Atrebus: Of course, Socrates, you don’t really think so. Cronus is of such old age that some species which once existed have now passed away with him.
SOCRATES: But Atreus, our friend Cronus gave all his wealth to charity, lived a voluntary life, and was esteemed honorable by all who met him. Is it wrong to say that Cron’s behavior has beauty?
Atrebus: No, I believe it is not wrong to say Socrates. I like Cron’s behavior to be beautiful.
SOCRATES: It remains, then, to conclude that beauty is not only that which appeals visually and sonically, but can also be form, is Atreus correct?
Atrebus: So it is Socrates.
SOCRATES: What is it about Cronus’ character that makes him handsome?
Atreus: Cronus’ behavior is considered beautiful, because the actions he performs are praiseworthy; His works are good.
SOCRATES: Ah, so I understand that beauty must express the good in order to be beautiful?
Atrebus: Yes, Socrates, this is right. What has beauty must express good.
SOCRATES: Well, Atreus, you do better. I feel we are getting closer to understanding what beauty is. But is beauty a part of good, or is good part of beauty? Or do both terms mean the same thing?
Atrebus: I am afraid I do not understand Socrates’ question.
SOCRATES: Is everything beautiful good, or everything that is good?
DARK: Everything is beautiful and good.
SOCRATES: Yes, but what about the other side of the question, Atreus? Is all good good?
Atrebus: No, Socrates. Not all good is beautiful. For example, we could say that Pythagoras is good at mathematics, but it would not be inappropriate to say that Pythagoras is good at mathematics. Therefore the boundaries of good and beauty are not reversed.
SOCRATES: Very well, Atreus. Beauty, then, must be good in order that beauty may be rightly regarded. But this, please, Atreus. Do you think stories are beautiful?
Atrebus: Of course, Socrates, there is great beauty in sports. A story is a work of art. A story is a beautiful thing, it expresses raw human emotions, it teaches, entertains, etc.
SOCRATES: What about the story of Orecleia, Atreus? Did you see her? (This is a fictional story created for this dialogue)
Atrebus: Yes, O Socrates, I saw. It is a beautiful story, with all its costumes and decorations, poetic dialogue, and so on. Earrings are a true work of art.
SOCRATES: But Atreus is the first messenger in the Orecleia to be unjust; it is about cheating, stealing and lying. His main characters are also completely adulterous. Shall we say that it is beautiful, although it contains many things that are not good?
ATREUS: Of course the Orecleia is still a beautiful story, O Socrates, even with all the dishonest elements.
SOCRATES: But what, Atreus? We have already said that it is good to be beautiful, but Orecleia has many evils. Shall we now say that beauty can mean something evil and still be beautiful?
Atrebus: Yes, Socrates is looking here. I am not ready to say that Orecleia is not beautiful, because it contains evil; I mean it’s a beautiful story. Hence it remains that beauty can contain evil and still be beautiful.
SOCRATES: Let Atreus not rush to conclusions now. Maybe people find the story beautiful despite the fact that it contains something bad? In other words, perhaps the story is beautiful because it contains more good than bad?
Atreus: By Jupiter, Socrates, that is. It can still be found that something is bad, as long as there is more good than bad.
SOCRATES: Are the people only the parts of a good moral story? That is, unless they find beauty in the parts of the story that have a good moral message?
ATREVUS: Yes, the games also enjoy bad behavior. They delight in flattering persons, who deceive, lie, steal, etc. These characters do not detract from the beauty of the story; indeed, I think I should add it to his reputation. These subtle features make the story more interesting and more realistic; true to life
SOCRATES: Do you see what you have just done, Atreus? You have allowed people to find beauty even in malice. Wherefore is it to be said that beauty must say good in order to be beautiful?
Atrebus: I do not know Socrates. I just know beauty when I see it. I find that sometimes what is bad is beautiful, and sometimes what is good is beautiful. There is beauty in a judging man.
SOCRATES: I see the hall. Perhaps this new revelation will lead us to the answer to whose beauty it is. If the form is to judge the person, then everything is beautiful? Can even the ugliest of creatures, the saddest music, and the sweetest character be beautiful?
Atrebus: No one, O Socrates, certainly not. There are limits to what can be beautiful.
SOCRATES: Great Atreus. Now we know on the way what beauty is. Say what the boundaries of the form are. For surely where the limits of beauty are found, we shall find the true essence of beauty.
Atrebus: Please, Socrates, I am tired of this endless questioning. I cannot describe the limits of beauty. I will give one last attempt to define beauty. See this flower growing here? This flower is beautiful.
SOCRATES: In what virtue is this beautiful flower?
Atrebus: This flower is beautiful because of the power I feel. This flower infuses me with a feeling of beauty.
SOCRATES: So beauty is sense?
Atreus: Beauty is what is felt when looking at something appealing or pleasing to the senses, such as this flower.
SOCRATES: So beauty is that which is felt when something appeals to the feeling. And appeal is a word that you used to describe. Therefore you say this, that beauty is that which is felt when one sees something beautiful. My Atrees, you have not given me a clearer image of whose beauty than that which I have already come here before. I feel that if we spend a few hours now, we will be able to determine just what the beauty of Atreus is. Will you stay and not enlighten the old fool?
Atrebus: Please, Socrates, we must go. I just remember that I need to make some final preparations for the gallery right away. Farewell Socrates.
What I wanted to show here is an example of a Socratic dialogue. Like most other dialogues, Socrates, or one of his friends, is met with a strophe of a philosophical nature. At the center of this dilemma is the true meaning of the word “beauty.” In this dialogue, Socrates states that he has no clear idea of what beauty is, yet his interlocutor, Atreus, is considered somewhat expert in this area. Atreus, confident that he knows what beauty is, sends Socrates to define the term. In Atreus’ attempt to define beauty, Socrates finds difficulties in each definition.
The philosophical intention of this dialogue was to show that understanding the beauty of Atreus was not enough. Atreus then has to expand his definition of beauty in order to please Socrates. The end was that Atreus contradicted himself. In the same way that Atreus, when he feels that he is careful, surrounds himself with every definition of beauty, contradicts himself. He says that everything beautiful is good, but he is forced to admit that there is also beauty in evil. Finally, Atreus makes one last attempt to define the term, but even this is not enough for Socrates.
